» The Tommy Mistwallow Affair, Or, trying to game the system? Options

[MarkTwain White]

Here are some recent scores Nber gleaned from the HKC scoreboard:

Tourney-3H: Tommy Mistwallow: Ocean Course: 2008-08-12 10:05:57 Tommy Mistwallow [3,3,3,0,0,0,0,0,0] = 9 witness xavier foxtrot
Regular Rnd: Tommy Mistwallow: Ocean Course: 2008-08-12 09:27:02 Tommy Mistwallow [4,4,5,4,5,3,3,4,3] = 35 witnessed by xavier Foxtrot
Regular Rnd: Tommy Mistwallow: Shore Course: 2008-08-12 10:04:11 Tommy Mistwallow [3,3,4,3,5,4,3,3,3] = 31 witness xacier foxtrot
Regular Rnd: Tommy Mistwallow: Ocean Course: 2008-08-13 17:41:48 Tommy Mistwallow [3,3,4,4,4,4,2,5,3] = 32 xavier foxtrot

Wow! What an awesome set of scores for a new player! But of course, one immediately notices that the witness listed is equally as new. Both avatars were born on 8/11. Tommy has no profile information beyond the fact that he is a member of SLGA and HKC. Xavier has no info period.

Thots folks?

In way of providing a backdrop to your comments, here is a quote from the Honor and Etiquette article at Hollykai.Com

Here at Holly Kai we trust in the integrity of the golfers to follow the accepted practices of honorable play just as is done in real life. Here at Holly Kai we require that posted rounds as well as rounds in mini-tournaments and monthly tournaments to be witnessed.

While we don't make a big deal of it, we expect the witness to also be a player in the round, or to be a known golfer to the HKC community who is serving as a non-playing witness. We discourage witnessing by non-playing personal friends of the golfer for obvious reasons. We also think it's a good idea to mix up your list of witnesses. Don't play every round using the same witnesses. Expand your horizons and play witnessed rounds with a variety of other players.

So what do you make of these scores folks?

[Getme]

Tourney-3H: Tommy Mistwallow: Ocean Course: 2008-08-12 10:05:57 Tommy Mistwallow [3,3,3,0,0,0,0,0,0] = 9 witness xavier foxtrot
Regular Rnd: Tommy Mistwallow: Shore Course: 2008-08-12 10:04:11 Tommy Mistwallow [3,3,4,3,5,4,3,3,3] = 31 witness xacier foxtrot

I'd have to say it's questionable, especially since the first and third scores happened within a minute and 46 seconds of each other and the third one was a full round.

Just my opinion, and please don't anyone start going off on me and start calling me names again, but I don't think these scores are real, not given how close they are together. Add to that the fact that I think in all the time the Ocean course has been there, I've only heard of one eagle.

I just don't see how it could have happened.

Getme

This post has been edited by Getme: Aug 14 2008, 05:25 PM

[Nber Medici]

methinks something is rotten in Denmark (that is NOT a negative comment on Danes btw)

I have not included these scores in the Holly Kai Points spreadsheet.

[Autox]

Perhaps this person should be challenged to a round and show his skills, then if they can reproduce a round like that let it stand!

[Wendy Bouchard]

I think someone should have a chat with him/her and maybe play them. it seems odd that someone would pay 2500 L and try to game the system, if i were able i would be real sweet to the person and not accuse, just try to figure out if the score is bogus (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Nber Medici]

Something that no one has mentioned is their choice of witness. The witness is equally new and did not post a round. This is NOT the appropriate protocol.

[MarkTwain White]

Something that no one has mentioned is their choice of witness. The witness is equally new and did not post a round. This is NOT the appropriate protocol.

I purposely did not post my opinion of these rounds because I wanted to see what others posted. Perhaps I am just a cynical SOB, but in my view there is no way that a brand new SL player comes in, spends 2500L to join an exclusive club, become an expert player in 24 hours, and finds a credible witness who is also brand new, born on the same day, one day before the first round posted.

Now if an established player we know wants to play as an alt, although I think that's a bit wimpy, I would STILL count the score if i felt it was a legitimately played round. The ONLY way I can get that peace of mind is to know that another player (one who I would have AT LEAST seen around the club as a player) had witnessed and verified that the round was legitimate.

The Mistwallow rounds are so clearly an alt using an alt for a witness that I am surprised anyone could even consider these as legitimate rounds and by extension that Mistwallow is a legitimate golfer. With rounds like this being submitted the entire question of honest rounds without mulligans/play overs (apart from legitimate playeovers as discussed in the local rules) gets pushed to the extreme. We have gone from trying to educate players that mulligans are not acceptable in recorded rounds to now an incredible attempt to purposefully deceive the HKC staff and community. I bet these rounds were not played at all.

I STILL am getting reports from more than one unrelated source of recorded rounds being played with mulligans/play overs about more than one person. If i personally ever witness a golfer play a "witnessed round" while taking a mulligan/play over that isnt based on the local rules I will BAN them and I will have stern words for the "witnesses" who allow their names to be used as a verification of the authenticy of the round. The integrity of the game is at stake. Btw, I have alts and I know how to use the Nicolaz brower. Only cheaters need fear that last statement, honest players should welcome it.

Oh, as to Tommy Mistwallow and Xavier Foxtrot, if they wish to step forward and address this situation, join in the life of the community, and explain to the community's satisfaction how a brand new newbie player and witness could become so proficent so fast, then I will publically eat crow and offer my sincerest apologies.

[Vivienne Coppola]

Would the real AJ please stand up?

(my attempt at a lame joke)
definitely one for Miss Marple me thinks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/freakout.gif)

[Vivienne Coppola]

Would the real AJ please stand up?

(my attempt at a lame joke)
definitely one for Miss Marple me thinks!

[Decklin Tilling]

In the spirit of HK not becoming The Lives Of Others (if you haven't seen it, rent it) perhaps there is some way to vet out newcomer scores from established members. Yes, they may be alts. (I thought Arsinoe was an alt when she burst on the scene. I was ready to accuse, ridicule, scorn. Silly me.) So while these scores are likely those of wishful thinkers playing a foot wedge, let's not throw down the gauntlet to defend themselves. It's not very welcoming to say to someone who probably forgave every errant shot (and for a newbie, there were plenty) "show yourself and account for your ridiculously low score!"

Let's think together about how we gently bring people into the club, encouraging where we can, educating where we should, and praising them when they adhere to the rules.

I'll throw out the first thought: at my country club you had to play a number of qualifying rounds before your handicap was accepted. one of those rounds had to be with a pro who could then vouch for the skill level of the player. perhaps not everyone who signs up for SLGA can post a witnessed round with an unknown witness. we already set a bar for A flight. perhaps we set a bar for "competitive member": in order to be part of that club, you need to play a round with an HK staff or certified club member.

reactions, other ideas? i was noticing how nicely the roster is filling up. let's not fall into the trap of RL ccs and start getting judgmental and petty. let's bring them in, and teach them real honest play is the best way to go at HK.

Btw Getme, I eagled Ocean three the other day. Xavier witnessed...